[PLUG] Why folks using IRC are against "cool" and "new" features?

[Sankarshan Mukhopadhyay]

On Wed, Sep 4, 2019 at 5:32 PM Tejas Sanap <sanap.tejas at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Wed, Sep 04, 2019 at 03:33:49PM +0530, Sankarshan Mukhopadhyay wrote:
> > On Wed, Sep 4, 2019, 15:08 Vishal Rao <vishalrao at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > IRC is kind of "stateless", right? Meaning you have to stay logged in to
> > > not miss any messages? If I log out and log back in later on, I miss all
> > > the messages that were posted in the interim? That is the main reason I
> > > stopped using IRC and prefer email mailing lists or online forum discussion
> > > platforms or things like Slack where you can see the messages even if you
> > > log out and log back in later on.
> Or, you can use a terminal-based IRC client like irssi or weechat and log in
> on a server using tmux. Next time, tmux attach and tmux detach. Simple.
> You never have to log out.
>
> > There's IRC bouncers which can be configured to enable the kind of
> > "presence" which you point out. Those are usually additional services -
> > either to be paid for, or, configured. Email continues to be a resilient
> The main takeaway from the whole IRC/ZNC vs. Slack coversation, or rather
> any software solution on Linux vs. On Mac/Windows, is that in the latter
> case things "just work". Whereas, in the former case, you require a bit
> of tweaking and hacking. This is the point where things go sour for many
> users. As enthusiasts, we love a new challenge and throw ourselves at
> it. But, a normal user only wants to do his work.
>

A significant number of things also "just work" on Linux. And as
someone who has been using a Linux desktop for a while now, the
improvements have been quite staggering if not totally amazing. That
said, there are 2 aspects to the IRC/Slack conversation - (a) initial
investment (b) value proposition.

As a growing number of projects are switching over to Slack, the
end-user/contributor/participant joining IRC might not find the
desired value.

And as the above choice is made keeping in mind "get online as quickly
as one can", setting up a persistent instance, configuring
tmux/screen, configuring a client etc are steps that need to be done.
Matrix addresses some of that.

> To be honest, I have given this topic a lot of thought, and the only way
> to convince people to go with FOSS/Linux solutions, is to show them in
> person how to do things.
>
> As an example, I would suggest setting up "polybar". It's a custom
> status bar that many people use alongside their minimalistic window
> managers (like i3 or dwm). If, one wished to approach this task on their
> own, it is highly likely that they would give up. But, if someone has
> access to an in-depth and at the same time, easy tutorial such as [1]
> and [2]... It will be a different story.
>
> > Slack and others don't lend themselves well to highly threaded or, long
> > form conversations. List software such as Mailman are also adding
> > enhancements which cater to some of the requirements around ease of
> > conversations.
> There are a lot of interesting features in ZNC. For example, it will
> automatically (and, temporarily) detach from an "inactive" channel. Or,
> it allows for maintaining seperate buffers, channel-list for different
> devices. But, such features, are rarely advertised.
> I maybe wrong here, but, as a "Linux Users Group" we should be helping
> such projects "bridge the gap" between normal users and themselves.

The question though is what is the gap we would want to bridge. If I
am not mistaken, a student would want to earn their
stripes/credibility within a project so that they can show their
contributions and expertise. To that effect, the easiest path to the
outcome will always be the most traveled.

> Like, I know so many college "CS/IT" courses where students use vi/vim
> as their editors, but the students never leave the "INSERT" mode. I
> mean, that's just sad.

I'd position that the students should be made aware of Atom, Eclipse
and even VSCode as a number of possible spaces they will work at
(employment, further studies) are adopting these.